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Forum:Outcome of battle to retake DS9
I'm sorry if this question was answered, but does Ron D. Moore or anyone ever address how the Federation and Klingons could beat the Dominion with 200 ships left over? Here's why I'm asking: 1. The Federation was outnumbered 2 to 1, without the Klingons being there 2. Almost all of the Starfleet vessels were science vessels -- they were designed with defensive weapons, and were not meant for offensive use. On the other hand, both the Dominion and Cardassian ships had numerous warships. 3. There were many 1-man fighters in the battle, meaning all the more fewer "big ships" for the Federation 4. Granted, the warrior Klingons came with warships, but later, when many Federation ships would have been lost. Were the Klingons that powerful and that numerous to make a difference? (Worf says that it was not easy to convince Gowlron to spare "any" ships, which makes it seem like only a portion of the Klingon fleet was sent) Picky question, and maybe it doesn't have an answer, only that it just "happened to happen." But still, is there something official about the reason for the outcome? 13:34, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :Why do you assume all the ships were science vessels? Even if they were, it was a war and they knew they were going into battle; they likely equipped all ships with the weapons needed. I'm not aware of any specific statements by Moore in this area, but you can review or search his AOL chats that we have for such a statement. 31dot (talk) 13:36, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :The Klingons outflanked the Dominion ships, it was probably more a matter of maneuvers than military power, though Klingon ships are not weak. 31dot (talk) 13:40, June 11, 2013 (UTC) ::1.- True. ::2.- What? Few vessels of Starfleet are scientific only. That one of the purpose is scientific doesn't mean they aren't more than capable at battle. Remember, the Constitution-Class was more powerful than its kingon contemporaries, and that Enterprise-D (a Galaxy-class) is the flagship, which means that it is one of the most powerful ships in its time. Furthermore, After Wolf-359, Starfleet began to prepare against future incursions from the Borgs. That means ships primarily designed for battle. One such is the Defiant (why appeared only three defiant-class ships in all the DS9 chapters?), but also are the Akira-Class, Saber-Class... which were prominently used. ::3.- Why do you assume the fighters are counted in the count of ships stated? ::4.- The klingon arrived with the battle already running. It means two things ::a) they caught the Dominion / Cardassian by surprise, causing havoc in the enemy lines. ::b) The D / C ships were already damaged, so fresh reinforcements, as were the klingon ships would have the advantage. ::Also notice that probably klingon ships were superior than cardassian so the klingon invasion of Cardassia would be so successful until the Dominion arrival. We don't know how many of the Dominion / Cardassian Alliance ships were Cardassian and how many were Jem'Hadar. ::There is also the fact that the comand center was DS9, which was scrambled and forfeited, and so, the D / C fleet was with no coordination (though Sisko was the commander of Starfleet Task Force, Martok was so for the Klingon, and would surely be accepted by Starfleet ships to coordinate)), and even demoralized when they got news of the lose of the Gamma Cuadrant fleet. All that would explain why even an inferior fleet gained the battle. :::All of these make sense. About the science vessels -- Ron Moore said that the Defiant was the only "war" vessel because of Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future. But it makes sense that it didn't mean science vessels were inferior just because they weren't dedicate war vessels. 19:59, June 11, 2013 (UTC) One question I have always wondered at is the battle of Wolf 359. The loss of 39 ships was a major strike to starfleet which would take years to recover from it. Seven years later, Starfleet is at war, losing ships by the hundreds and mobilising 600 for ine battle. And even more, they use a large percentage of ships which were built before the battle with the Borgs (excelsior class, miranda class, ambassador class...). I have always thought the magnitude of Starfleet was bigger than said in the series, because if the 40 ships at Wolf 359 were, let's say, half of the fleet, it would have less than 80.000 people serving in it. That is less than many medium sized nations' armies currently. ::::My answer to your question (it's just an opinion) is that the 40 starships Starfleet assembled at Wolf 359 were ships that were scrambled in only a few days when the Borg quickly advanced into Federation space. Many starships were on deep space missions, hundreds of light-years away and therefore unable to assist. Also there are differences between ship classes such as starships, frigates, cruisers, tugs, etc, with starships at the top. A year later, Picard assembled 23 starships in "Redemption II" with the ships at Starbase 234 and the ones a days travel from the base. Admiral Hanson likely did a similar thing with the Wolf 359 fleet. As an analogy, the New York Fire Department lost 343 firefighters on 9/11, while the latest number of their total strength is nearly 16,000. In other words, they lost less than 2.3% of their total strength; however does anyone dispute that 9/11 was a devastating blow to the FDNY? I doubt it. Same with Starfleet's losses at Wolf 359. OP have you ever been in a crossfire? When the Dominion forces moved to counter the Federation's push through their lines that left them exposed at the flanks. It would have worked too if the Klingons didn't show up and out flank the Dominion.